This driver was a state trooper.

It was the other driver's fault.

then more cars will try and get through....... their not dumb

No, increasing the time on the oncoming red would give more time for driver making left hand to do so without turning infront of someone jumping the red. The way it is now, people get left in the intersection and light goes solid red for person trying to turn. They are either going to run the red and chance someone jumping thyellow in oncoming lane or sit in the middle of the intersection until the light cycles back to green. Problem is most are use to edging into intersection and wait until yellow and traffic clears to finish their turn. Now it goes red and strands people.

Yep. Angela, I know the 12mile & Dequindre intersection very well! Grew up there. And even without the yellow arrow, I have witnessed so many accidents over the years there. People in general, whether there is a yellow or not!, always "got to beat" any light etc, to get that turn in quick! That is the bigger problem. I have tried to follow these news rules too, and ALWAYS get honked at by the car behind me. They "thought" I should have had been through the light, instead of slowing down and stopping.

People don't learn anything. Using turn signals in the round-abouts is a common courtesy and common sense, yet few people do. Great place to start issuing tickets. That'll teach them.

I've encountered that at some intersections as well so this is where the confusion comes in. They can say they are all the same but they are not.

Can I ask, back in 2008, was anything sent to your home to 'educate' you on this? I wasn't. I found this new yellow arrow, just from driving! Came up to it,at a intersection, I was daily, in my city! I was like, ok! What's with the new yellow arrow?! Nothing from our city warning us, these were going to change, or what you are suppose to do. I did go on the ol' internet, to find out what these new yellow were for and why they were added. But as a driver, you should not have to "learn" in this fashion!

Yes, I have to agree with Clawson Citizen that these new lights were introduced with not enough general public education. It used to be that without the left turn signals the only way you could turn left at busy intersections would be if you went out in the middle of the intersection and waited for a gap in traffic or for the light to turn yellow, plus other left turn drivers behind you would get mad and honk if you didn't do that. I remember having arguments with my teen in driver's training about seven years ago about it. lol, turns out he was being trained correctly! Now I've learned from a couple bad experiences, if it is flashing yellow, do not go out in the intersection, you may not get your gap for left turn, and then it will turn red and you will be stuck in the intersection with a red face!
I think public service announcements on TV from the SOS office demonstrating these lights would have helped. Or was there a flyer about them in the past five years with my license plate renewals that I somehow overlooked?

Yes C C, read my reply further down........... ignorance is no excuse. there was stuff from the city.......... if you don't know some thing, ever hear of Google,? or Oakland co. road commission, M-dot, U S. Dot ? In Europe they had so many signs, they now are taking them down, "It's called personal space" bikes cars and pedestrians are using the same space. it has cut down on speeding, hint the bigger the vehicle the more at fault you are..........K I S S .......... keep it simple ........

I agree with you Cathy! I have seen MORE drivers "try to beat" the yellow arrow, no matter if it is solid or blinking! Needs to just taken out!

But the old system was NOT "red-stop, green-go." A flashing red left-turn arrow meant go after yielding. The only advantage to that was that we all knew how it worked, and the new system is, well, new. Objectively and in the long run, the new system, under which red means stop absolutely, green means go absolutely, and yellow means go conditionally, will be best. Once we all get used to it.

But.... waht about people waiting to turn that edge into intersection (as we were taught in drivers Ed) suddenly have arrow turn to red? Now you are stuck if someone is behind you and you are now hampering those trying to turn left from opposite direction? They need to give opposing traffic a red a few seconds before turning turn lane red. That gives someone jumping light a chance to clear intersection and person turning a chance to get out of the intersection.

Agree. Also, how about changing the signs to read: "No Turn on Red for Idiots".

Kelly, Thank You! Finally, a breath of fresh air, and some Common Sense! I was afraid that the obituary I read a while back about the death of Common Sense was true (http://infohost.nmt.edu/~armiller/commonsen.htm).

I have been gagging while reading these endless comments from people who even after a number of years of experiencing flashing yellow turn signals, and plenty of coverage in the newspapers even before the change was made, are totally clueless on how to properly navigate a left turn, and feel absolutely no obligation to educate themselves, it’s all someone else’s fault for not teaching them. And the really scary part of all this is, “These people live among us!”

Kelly, your smarter beyond your years, If you read these poor is me, bla bla. Justr google new traffic lights, or pay me 3 k and I will teach you, after all you did in College.

Sorry I just read THE DEATH OF COMMON SENSE, it is so true, now you know why 30 yr olds are moving back in their parents and the parents are the reason they can't stand on there 2 feet now.......thank God they weren't born back in the 1700's, we still would be serving the red coats and paying taxes to the Queen.

Take all the signs down, ppl qill drive slower and safer....... ever hear a deer (body) hit a car ?

Angela Emmerling
12:34 pm on Thursday, August 16, 2012
I have only noticed the advanced green light for left turns at intersections where the oncoming traffic is not allowed to turn on red. What intersection allows people to turn right on red but also has advance green arrows for the oncoming left lane? Those should be fixed immediately.

Long Lake and Middlebelt. There are a number of other intersections that are set up the same way. It has a solid green arrow for right turns when traffic is turning left for cross-traffic but NO indicator when on-coming traffic is turning left. What make this even worse is that the left turn lanes are load-based and can be longer or shorter in one direction than the other.

There should be a solid, RED arrow for the right turn lanes (indicating 'No Turn On Red') when the oncoming left turn light is green. I would NOT want 'No Turn On Red' signs at the intersections - I should still be able to turn when cross traffic is clear!

Of course, they still need to fix the left turn signals so they don't activate when no cars are present. :)

According to crash stats at that intersection compiled by SEMCOG, there were 15 crashes at the intersection in 2008; in the following years there were 30 (in 2009), 23 (in 2010) and 26 (in 2011). However, as Bryson clarified, in '08 the intersection was under construction (which likely accounts for the lower crash rate that year). In addition, the road was widened, meaning higher traffic volumes at the intersection after that year. So, while it appears as though the traffic crashes increased after '08 when the signal was installed, there are these other factors to consider.

Oh, please. There's no secret code, nor advanced math necessary here. If you have a valid driver's license, you know (or SHOULD) what red, green, and yellow lights mean. Beyond that, as stated above, common sense should take over and one should proceed when safe to do so. All this whining about "we were never educated about this!!" is indicative of a larger problem - no one wants to THINK anymore. This is increasingly evident while driving most anywhere today. And to Linda: "We've all been programmed" to speed up at a yellow light??!! Don't know what "school" you learned at, but mine never involved "programming". You do what makes sense, requiring your full attention when driving. Yes, it IS driver error, and no one else's. Sheesh.

I tot. disagree, it was on the claw channel, In the quarterly "What's happening Booklet"that is mailed to every postal cust. if you get mail, you got one of these.( the one that has all the coming activities and events, and phone numbers, ever read it, there's more in there then you think also in the year book at the Fourth of July, time, along with the white events sheet, with days and Times. I got tired seeing it, I know to this day, there are a stack of 2 1/2 x 6's in the lobby of City Hall. one of those entered my house some how, trying to say in one of those mailings, also it was explained at a City Council Meeting, by the Chief. My Freshman Yr. at and all boys School, the Prefect of Disciplined, reminded the incoming newbies, stop by the main Board, and READ, "Ignorance is no Excuse" another words the burden is on you..... same with safety, ever see painted lines stop a car? just because your in between the lines, the burden for safety is YOUR's the first Statement in U S - D O T ...Safety is your responsibility....... your on here, whats wrong with Goggling "new yellow flashing traffic lights"` meaning you use a computer, use it....... don't blame, all this is for all of you that posted a reply.......... I f I was a cop, I would cut no slack, they have been out a long time.

Gill, my experience driving in Europe some years ago, including the UK, is that compared to the U.S., drivers there took their driving more seriously and were much more observant of surrounding traffic. The right turn on red here can be dangerous because drivers here are less attentive to their driving. I think it would work better in Europe. As for passing a vehicle in a lane closer to the curb, my experience was that European drivers were always in the proper lane, and passing on the right was never an issue. In the U.S., drivers think it is perfectly reasonable to cruise in the outer (left) lane, even at speeds below the limit. I thoroughly enjoyed my driving experiences in Europe. Hope things haven’t changed.

No one has the $$$$ to change all at the same time....... it's the do me now generation, the smart phoners .........

Of I see a yellow, to me it means the on coming has a green, ot means caution proceed at your own risk........... yellow does not mean the on coming is red. I don't ass u me any thing, I do what my directional says.. why ass u me , on the freeway, you assume the guy next to you as had a wheel balanced , going 75 next to you......... don't you

thank you Miriam! I actually printed OUT Kristin's directions in the article! And will put in my car! That way, I can show this to the "know it all idiots" who HONK at you! when they THINK you are supposed to go through the yellow arrows! According to this, you have 6 steps you are supposed to remember while watching 4 corners of the intersection as well. I even had a man! tap my rear bumper, because HE THOUGHT I should went through the intersection, when I knew I should NOT!
As for the other commenter about this being on the Clawson Claw-TV? That is ONLY on WOW OR Comcast Cable! NOT U-Verse Cable, Why doesn't Clawson have a contract with U-Verse? I used to watch all the city council meetings etc on there, until I HAD to switch from the misery of Comcrap to U-Verse. And yes, I get the same quarterly booklets AND do read them! I must have gotten the one where there was a typo! Because I never read about Clawson changing ALL their lights over. AND the interection I refer to is for both Troy & Clawson, at Maple & Livernois! Guess that must have fallen under Troy's authority. Love all the "know it all" perfect drivers on here. SMH! BUT ONE thing everyone is right on, why NOT SEATBELTS?! I about fell over when that came to light! And yes, that should be a not brainer, tickets for every person who did NOT have one ON!

AT&T does not will not share (tippin? stipend) fees that they charge or collect in your bill with the cities) which means ALL the upgrades and 6 remote cameras, plus other upgrades were all done with kick backs to Clawson from Comcast and Wow, as per contract. AT&T sends theirs to Corporate. Evidently you didn't read the channel guide before you switch, again you made the call.......... certainly Not the City of Clawson's. would you allow some one in for free? and use your city property? You chose to send your money out of town, that is what is great about America, individual decisions, then others get to be blamed because of your decisions ........ can't help you there, know all the facts before choosing, " Buyer Beware" all I can say, people knew that when at&t made their pitch at City Council a yr before starting in Clawson, it is State wide with AT&T, don't feel bad other clawsonites got caught, part of that Do me now mentality........ note I didn't reply with any emotion, why the "tude from you, all facts , nothing but the facts, pretty black and white ...........

Claw. Citizen:
Cities do not have control over Traffic lights. (except to ask and qualify for one, cost = 145,000, plus 14,500 maint. fee a yr. That could be per city(?) (B'ham is switching to all L E D's to not have that fee the bulbs last like 2 yrs, led's last 10 to 14 yr's) M-DOT, through Oak. Co. Rd Commission, in this Co. does. I didn't know how the process worked either till I did research, and natural curiosity, The Statement . about Clawson changed the lights, or "I guess that was Troy, is also false, reason being, falls under the the first Sentence of this post. One part you are right on, Main and 15 mile is Troy and Clawson, and Crooks and 14 mile is Clawson and Royal Oak...... again answer is posted with no emotion, so why is your's, you os I will not change any thing, but as "we" could..........was it in the mayors col. or City Managers ? it was there. BTW, if I excluded my selve from city goings on, I'd be all over city hall, cause all info is there. and posted by law. city charter and ord. as for the yellow lights I beleive they are nation wide, and Mich and one other state are the last5 to implement, cause of the money crunch..........

Not using a seatbelt is a choice, not a mistake.

It's both.

Whatever happened to "click it or ticket"?

I agree with Darryl....what happened to "Click it or ticket?" I am sure he or anyone else who was in the car will get one. So beyond STUPID!!!!!!